The Criminals of Islam

@Uncovered Faith You bring out some important things for each of us to consider and weigh through....

This reminds me of making a religion out of being an anti-secteraian sectarianist.

I think its good to examine ourselves in this area and make sure we are not swinging the pendulum into the opposite direction of errors. Balance and moderation is our friend....
 
I think we can get so involved in polemics and exterior doctrines and word wars that one ends up only grasping the husk/outside shell of the Quran...essentially just another religion without spiritual reality due to a focus on the shells/husks of words, doctrines, and endless study and fights over the outer shells while missing going into the inner seed...going inside the husk/shell gasping the mystical inner meanings and Ta-wil and application and heartwork and connection to Allah Himself.

At some point I think one must ask themselves what is the purpose of all this study and polemics? Is this bringing me closer to Allah and making me a better person? Is this bringing love and light into my soul? Is there an inner spiritual reality to all my religious study?

The Quran was not just given to get all your doctrinal ducks in a row or to have a list of good guys and bad guys...
 
Uncovered Faith said:
I might have to answer my own question 😜

I have a lot of thoughts on this. It is hard to put it in to words. What I am seeing in the Quran Alone space is a deep spiritual crisis. People who have questioned their faith for a long time before coming to a place of Quran Alone understanding. Then feeling alienated from their family and friends.
I am going to be brutally honest and say that I am troubled by what I see. People with a faith that have no direction. I believe this stems from people not really knowing how to move forward. How to be Muslim without all the things they no longer believe.
For me it is different. I am a new believer. I haven’t spent years following all the rules and rituals. Yet I too am suffering a spiritual crisis. Not knowing how to move forward. How do I find God in all of this?
Yesterday I spent a lot of time reading my Sufi literature. That is what initially brought me to Islam. Yet even that is apparently not acceptable because The Sufis followed the rules of religion. Yet in doing that they have left us with a rich culture of poetry and writings that transcend the very religious dogma we are struggling to accept. To throw out that is to throw out the baby with the bath water …
People like Ghazali, Ibn Arabi, Rumi and so many others are spiritual giants. Their writings will live on and continue to bless many people. They discovered a God with whom they served faithfully their whole lives. Their written words speak of a love so deep that it makes us want to dive deeper and discover that mystery for ourselves.
My question is, How do we live a life of faith in a religion that is filled with great spiritual mentors, poetry, art, philosophy, medicine….. if we reject it all as blasphemy?
Click to expand...

As per my current view, Islam is not “yet another” religion. It’s a prescribed way of life. I do not say it’s my final conclusion, but everything points me in that direction. It’s not so about us, it’s about others and doing good deeds and be righteous.

You said “How do I find God in all of this?”
There are clear instructions in Quran what to do and it’s the best way to became closer to Allah. I do not see anything ’mystical’ in that Way. It’s about action, progress and less about isolation and static things.
It’s also about ultimate consciousness and only Allah possess it. With knowledge is same, it’s our duty to strive to that ultimate goal. We are different from animals because of that consciousness and it’s order from Allah to think (aql) as He gave to us that grace.

So, that term “mystical” is a problem for me.
As soon as we say that something is mystical, we open up space for speculation and it is probably main reason for the deviation of human civilization. It’s circular and it’s constantly repeating… so we can conclude that we are not excluded in this process.
Al-Ghayb is known only to Allah, so as soon as we step in that direction it’s problematic as we need to have some conclusions but it’s only guessing.
Think about these ayahs:

17:36 “Do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these are held responsible for that.”

6:116 “Now if you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who live on earth, they will lead you astray from God’s way. Most of the people follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork”

Another point you said “They discovered a God..” is problematic, how can you be so sure for them? I do not have anything against these people, but Quran and Allah is our one and only Teacher. We can find knowledge in many books, whether it is Chinese, Buddhist, Suffis or any other, but guidance is coming only from Quran.
As soon as you start to take something else “as guidance” and some other authority besides Allah there will be a problem as Allah says in ayah 17:45 “We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears”.
So it’s our goal to submit with ultimate submission or better to say humbly submit (48:29 rukka`an sujjadan)

Allah says in 31:27 “If all the trees on earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise.”
So basically everything we need to pass test in this world is in Quran, we need to program our mind/brain in that direction and to reject other ideas. Allah know what is best for us, we are students.

I have no intention of arguing, my only goal is to provoke another opinion in order for myself to become better in understanding.
 
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I didn't say "it's everything or all about", all I said is " it’s the best way to became closer to Allah" and it was observation for your constatation on how to find God. But I see now that my answer was not good as I took your words out of context.

True that you didn't say it's mystical, but it's obvious when we speak about Sufism and those who follow that doctrine. "It is Mystical movement within Islam that seeks to find divine love and knowledge through direct personal experience of God. It consists of a variety of mystical paths that are designed to ascertain the nature of mankind and God and to facilitate the experience of divine love and wisdom in the world."
Everything in between quotation marks is a definition from Google.

By 'static' things I mean everything what is not dynamic. Practices Sufis are doing in their lodges are static and nobody benefits from it.
I'm not saying I'm right and they are wrong, maybe I do not understand many things, but I do not find anything of that in Quran. If anything, I learned not to follow anything if I do not have knowledge about it.

"Yet in doing that they have left us with a rich culture of poetry and writings that transcend the very religious dogma we are struggling to accept. To throw out that is to throw out the baby with the bath water."
My point here was that I do not need this to be guided. And I can see that many traditionalists have same problems with "ulema" and they are not able to get rid of it. They see them as "giants" and infallible.
I belive in fitra that Allah gave us, it's our internal compass. That's why Al Quran is DHIKR/REMINDER for us. If Allah says everyone of us can understand it, it's complete and everything is included in it, then I belive and I submit.

Have you read any of the literature by these men? Any of the poetry? The language of love is abundant.
I did and I do not have problem with this, or any other poetic literature. But I have a problem with it if somebody comes to me and saying to me what to do and what not to do. Bring your evidence from Quran if it's true what you speak.
I don't want to sound like hater and I do understand what are you talking about, but we are not on same frequencies. You mention "spiritual mentors", and for me it's only Quran. Maybe it's too rigid, but I found it's the only way, everything else is mostly distraction.
 
@adnan

Hello and peace to you brother.

I think this is very important topic and relevant to every single person...and so Im thankful you have engaged deeply and thoughtfully. And I greatly appreciate that you care about this topic. I long for more people to care about this...and this is something Im still sorting through as well.

I think broad brushing all mystical spirituality into google's definition of sufism is a bit amiss of the sister's position and her affirmation of Islamic mystics...though I don't know my dear sister's exact position so I don't mean to speak for her but I do reckon we do see this similar...

And I agree with several things that you said though I think we see the mystics differently and some other things...I would like to hear your views and thoughts more on this and try to understand how you balance all this for yourself...especially head c/c heart and theological c/c mystical and cognitive c/c experiential.

In my understanding I see spirituality that consists in just the intellect and the bodily obedience is little more than mere religion and rituals. I see that there is an aspect of internalizing religion in a deeper way and it is a direct relationship with Allah. This is a knowledge that cant be reached through just the intellect. There is a personal tasting and experience that is the reality of the nearness of Allah. I find this is supported in the Quan when one thinks about His beautiful names, about the essence of salat/connection, about ayats such as expanding our bosoms, and that He is closer than our jugular vein, and that He is pleased/delighted in us as we are pleased in Him...

I think the modernist shift has caused a bias for many of us...or maybe an overreaction to the errors and extreme views we see in mystical sects. Whatever the cause I notice there tends to be weakness/absence in the aspect of the immanence and nearness of Allah and the heart journey with Him...and it seems Quranists tend to lean to this direction...and maybe this is also because of many coming out dead religion of ritualism of traditional Islam...idk but seems the pendulum is swinging one way...and I think this sister is responding sensing this and reacting to that....and maybe she was tying to avoid the extreme anti sectarianism tendencies that becomes its own religion of being anti-sectarian...

So I hope to just put out a perspective and a little food for thought that is good for all of us in our journey...

I heard it aptly expressed that "There is no mysticism without theology AND there is no theology without mysticism."

I personally see that they go together. Just as the intellect and heart go together. They are not a dualistic dichotomy working against one another. They are designed to be in harmony together creating a spiritual reality and balance.

From my understanding traditionally there was not sharp distinctions made between the two. I wonder if it is partly subconscious bias of modernism and inordinate exalting of empirical knowledge especially this last century that we are getting off balance spiritually to an extreme...losing the heart and essence of spirituality and holding only husks and shells. (i.e. religion and rituals/external duty, and cognitive apprehension, theology)

I find that there is knowledge beyond book knowledge and conceptual knowledge...there is knowledge that is personal experience and tasting for oneself...

Example you can study about eating and know all the scientific intricacies of digestion and nutrition and the definations and etymology of every word and yet you have not truly known what it is to eat food...

And I think creation and life testifies of this beautiful harmony of immanence and transcendence of Allah and our connection to Him...even down to every meal you eat...every breath you take...every sunrise...both are there and can be experienced deeply and profoundly in a very oscillating way that they build upon one another and grant very deep devotion and theology and experiential relationship with God...

So I see it from the view that yes the Quran is "complete" Allah still repeatedly in the Quran bids us to look within ourselves and look within His creation...there is spiritual life beyond a conceptual knowledge of a book and cognitive apprehension of theology...and that is not just speculation/conjecture per those ayats you sited.

I think there is balance we can seek in the transcendence of Allah and His immanence. And find a balance in the involvement of our head and heart and balance of our theology and experience. There is a part of our faith and the essence of love and adoration that is beyond the bounds of intellect and words...

For example I find that the beautiful names of Allah when properly meditated upon has BOTH His transcendence and His immanence and nearness.

I find that His beautiful names are such deep profound examples of this spiritual oscillating experience of the two things coming together in balance...

For quick example; He is Al-Fattaah the Opener. And so we come to Him and trust Him to be the transcendent Almighty Opener and believe that nothing is too difficult for Him or beyond His knowledge... but Him being the Transcendent Opener is only part of this beautiful name. There is the immanence and His nearness that He opens our hearts, He opens our minds, He opens ways in our lives...and He wants us to come to Him. We experience Him as OUR Al-Fattaah. And so I see that both aspects are needful and should be cultivated and sought in our relationship with Allah and even though it is initially grasped in the mind it goes way beyond that into experience and the heart...

Another example in prayer...when one moves beyond rituals and duties and "prays when praying" One finds that he prays because he has an inward knowing and experience of Allah as BOTH transcendent and imminent. You pray because you know that He is exalted and transcendent and almighty...and you equally pray because you experience and know that He is imminent and near to you. If we do not have both aspects our prayers are truly hopeless and empty and nothing more than a duty or ritual...

We connect to Allah even though He is transcendent and almighty because He is also near and intimate with us on an experiential level. There is a beautiful oscillating between the two sights of God when one is balanced in this and properly engaged in both head and heart and balanced in theology and personal experience.

I think so long as we see these things as dualistic dichotomies we will fall into error on either side...and end up having a spiritual fire that is heat and no light or a spiritual fire that is light and no heat...both of these extremes is falling short of the real thing...

Please note: Im NOT defending a particular mystical sect or teacher. They have their excesses and errors. However, the mystics can bring a much needed corrective balance to the extreme opposite of a religion that is just cognitive theology and duty/rituals and help us find that harmony of a spiritual fire that is both heat and light.

The 13 th Surah Ar-Ra'd has incredible insight into how Allah teaches us by opposites to help us find balance...

Example the lightening that inspires both "hope" and "fear"

"surely in this are signs for those who understand"

For example when we see only dualistic view of hope or of fear we have not understood properly...

And there is also an inward experience beyond just conceptual knowledge being spoken of as well in this Surah and other ayats...

"He covers the day with night. Surely in this are signs for those who reflect."

I think it is good to be on guard and mindful of not falling into dualistic thinking or extreme anti sectarianism in our spiritual journey to a point that we just make a religion out of being anti-sectarian.

May Allah grant us patience and love for others and learn from their strengths and weaknesses and may we have a spiritual fire that is both heat and light...
 
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