Is Iblis an Angel? A Jinn? Or Both?

BelieverSG

BelieverSG

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Peace to all who reads this.

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Disclaimer: I am not an academic nor am I very knowledgeable in all things Quran despite the fact that I have been guided by our Lord since 2010. I am learning still.



I have been having a hard time to come to a conclusion about Iblis and who he really is. Let's have a look at the verses:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَٱسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ ٱلْكَـٰفِرِينَ
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he refused, and had waxed proud, and was of the false claimers of guidance.
(2:34)

And here is another which God commands the Angels:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ قَالَ ءَأَسْجُدُ لِمَنْ خَلَقْتَ طِينًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he said: “Shall I submit to one Thou hast created of clay?”
(17:61)

The two verses above clearly states that God said to the angels, and what was the key words were 'Submit to Adam'.

Staying within this context, this entity called Iblīs refused to do so. We also know that he is of the Jinn:


وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِۦٓ أَفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُۥ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُۥٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِى وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّۢ بِئْسَ لِلظَّـٰلِمِينَ بَدَلًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he was of the domini and was perfidious towards the command of his Lord; take you him and his progeny as allies instead of Me? And they are an enemy to you; evil an exchange for the wrongdoers!
(18:50)


I know there are a lot more verses that supports the fact that Iblis is of the Jinn, but I feel that this could be a enlightening discussion to start off since it has been bugging me for so long.

Let's have an intelligent and civil discussion!
 
What if Jinn and Angels were archetypes? I understand that Angels are said to only do what God commands them to do… a by product of that is that we are told this means they have no free will… and then we are told Jinn can do whatever they want and thus are inferred to have free will. What if that’s not the case? What if Angels are aligned with Gods will by choice?… and therefore are in accord with His will!?… being in such accord you simply couldn’t go against His will. What if that’s the difference between a Muslim and a nonmuslim? I’m obviously not a scholar as well.. I’m not prepared to make such a claim… but I do think quite a bit. Do I need to place a disclaimer? Haha! Ok, I am not a scholar, a doctor, lawyer, financial advisor or Imam… this is for educational and informational purposes only. If you need experts or professional assistance / advice in any of those regards and perhaps dozens more… I am not qualified, seek expert advice elsewhere! Ok, now that thats all out of the way.. what do you think? Feel free to shoot that barrel full of holes!
 
Peace,

Interesting question and one that I have pondered on a lot too.

My take is that an angel - malaika- is a rank. The word malik means king. We do not know what other creatures are angels but Iblis was a creature made out of fire - a jinn - and was one of the angels.
 
Whether Angel, Human or Jinn… or even the earth and all of creation… they all come from Gods word, utterance… his Ruh. The only distinction is purpose and free will or not free will. (Ok… maybe some other distinctions.. but this is my simplification… which is itself profound… so I think)
 
Is the topic of Ibn Arabi and Wahdat al-Wujud considered heretical here, or is it seen as a meaningful and potentially revealing exploration in the context of Quranic interpretation?
 
Peace,

I envision this forum to be a place where we use the Qur’an alone as a standard and source to base our discussions on. From what I have read of the Sufi doctrines, there isn’t much that impresses me. Frankly, I find their excessive veneration of Prophet Muhammad and earlier “saints” to be off-putting and borderline shirk.

I tend to stick with a literal and practical understanding of the Qur’an. Perhaps it is because that is what I was trained on since birth.

-Said
 
I absolutely agree with you regarding excessive veneration of Prophet Muhammad… and further any Prophet. I did get caught up in Sufism … and Madhab for over 15 years…following a Bosnian Imam/Sheikh… of Hanafi Madhab and Qadiri Tariqa… I genuinely feel angry or at least disturbed now to hear adhans and see Muhammads name on walls etc., it is shirk what they teach. I do appreciate the more spiritual and ‘esoteric’ thoughts though that are in alignment with Quran and reason… I would never promote intentionally something that has a disconnect from either… I am seeking practical, logical belief and practice in alignment Quran. I have largely broken away from Usury and government… no longer contracting with either as much as possible.. and eventually will make a lawful/legal separation … that is the goal.. and it comes with great burden… I no longer carry their ID’s or SSN… recently had a relative pass away and could not make it there to the funeral due to flying requiring both essentially.. I will God willing remedy that soon.. anyhow, I know you are quite busy.. I’ll share intermittently… and will be glad to share my practical progress in breaking away from the NWO.. the things Alan Watt Spoke of. Peace- Rez
 
saidmirza said:
Peace,

Interesting question and one that I have pondered on a lot too.

My take is that an angel - malaika- is a rank. The word malik means king. We do not know what other creatures are angels but Iblis was a creature made out of fire - a jinn - and was one of the angels.
Click to expand...
This makes total sense to me now.

On a side note, it’s really insane that Iblis would disobey God even knowing the outcome of his stance on the issue of submission to Adam. Instead of repentance, he is obdurate and stuck through his principles.

In a sense, at least he has bigger balls than the waiverers during Muhammad’s time.
 
Rez said:
What if Jinn and Angels were archetypes? I understand that Angels are said to only do what God commands them to do… a by product of that is that we are told this means they have no free will… and then we are told Jinn can do whatever they want and thus are inferred to have free will. What if that’s not the case? What if Angels are aligned with Gods will by choice?… and therefore are in accord with His will!?… being in such accord you simply couldn’t go against His will. What if that’s the difference between a Muslim and a nonmuslim? I’m obviously not a scholar as well.. I’m not prepared to make such a claim… but I do think quite a bit. Do I need to place a disclaimer? Haha! Ok, I am not a scholar, a doctor, lawyer, financial advisor or Imam… this is for educational and informational purposes only. If you need experts or professional assistance / advice in any of those regards and perhaps dozens more… I am not qualified, seek expert advice elsewhere! Ok, now that thats all out of the way.. what do you think? Feel free to shoot that barrel full of holes!
Click to expand...
Once again I apologise for my lack in knowledge or simply laziness but is there any verse that hints to this ranking/stature known as Malaikah that makes them also deterministic in nature?
 
might be really trivial but I will ask: apart from 18:50, does anyone know why Iblis refused to bow to Adam ?
----

here is another thought:

once upon a time there were angels & Iblis was one of them ..... so he was good at one point from the start.
then he refused to follow the Creator's command ---- (would our Creator not have known the end result of such a command beforehand)

is the main issue him not following our Creator's command because if Billy down the street asked me to bow to Adam & I refused, I would be commended to refrain from shirk. ----- was forgiveness of Iblis not an option for our Creator is more Merciful then (he) is Just.

hypothetically had Iblis replied "i only bow to you my Lord and not a mortal, but since you are asking me I will comply" everything would have been peachy no ?
 
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There is an argument that this could be allegorical and a lesson… one in a blindingly white room filled with blindingly white light would be blinded. Another in a exceedingly dark room absent of light would also be blind. We need both light and darkness (contrast) to see. It is in this line of thought that Iblis’s disobeying was necessary for the instruction, the lesson. In the end we learn from this. Who would know better than those in the presence of our Lord and Creator that nothing competes with Him? Unlike common man who can debate Gods existence as we know they do!

It is a great hypothetical question… and please note that of course my reply is also hypothetical!
 
Rez said:
Is the topic of Ibn Arabi and Wahdat al-Wujud considered heretical here, or is it seen as a meaningful and potentially revealing exploration in the context of Quranic interpretation?
Click to expand...
Ibn Arabi, Gazali etc. have many good standpoints, but they force mythos to the extremes and almost neglect logos. In my humble opinion and experience they are subjects of interest to intellect but not to reason at all.
 
Peace,

My research has led me to believe that he is of the jinn. The angels are questioned on the Day and they reply back that most men worshipped the jinn. The command to submit to Adam was given to the angels but one can infer that it would then be applicable to all creatures below them as well. I find it interesting that the Qur'an is not explicit in its treatment of Iblis as jinn or angel. Perhaps it is because these things are of the unseen and so they are left ambiguous.
 
saidmirza said:
Peace,

My research has led me to believe that he is of the jinn. The angels are questioned on the Day and they reply back that most men worshipped the jinn. The command to submit to Adam was given to the angels but one can infer that it would then be applicable to all creatures below them as well. I find it interesting that the Qur'an is not explicit in its treatment of Iblis as jinn or angel. Perhaps it is because these things are of the unseen and so they are left ambiguous.
Click to expand...
My country man Kenan did a research about this topic within Qur’an. To roughly summarize, the conclusion is that jinn is not separate creature but sort of title like genius, God given above average abilities among its kind. So genius human is jinn, genius “melaikeh” is jinn etc…it fits all dilemmas I had about this.
 
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BelieverSG said:
Peace to all who reads this.

View attachment 7

Disclaimer: I am not an academic nor am I very knowledgeable in all things Quran despite the fact that I have been guided by our Lord since 2010. I am learning still.



I have been having a hard time to come to a conclusion about Iblis and who he really is. Let's have a look at the verses:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَٱسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ ٱلْكَـٰفِرِينَ
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he refused, and had waxed proud, and was of the false claimers of guidance.
(2:34)

And here is another which God commands the Angels:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ قَالَ ءَأَسْجُدُ لِمَنْ خَلَقْتَ طِينًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he said: “Shall I submit to one Thou hast created of clay?”
(17:61)

The two verses above clearly states that God said to the angels, and what was the key words were 'Submit to Adam'.

Staying within this context, this entity called Iblīs refused to do so. We also know that he is of the Jinn:


وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِۦٓ أَفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُۥ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُۥٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِى وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّۢ بِئْسَ لِلظَّـٰلِمِينَ بَدَلًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he was of the domini and was perfidious towards the command of his Lord; take you him and his progeny as allies instead of Me? And they are an enemy to you; evil an exchange for the wrongdoers!
(18:50)


I know there are a lot more verses that supports the fact that Iblis is of the Jinn, but I feel that this could be a enlightening discussion to start off since it has been bugging me for so long.

Let's have an intelligent and civil discussion!
Click to expand...
BelieverSG said:
Peace to all who reads this.

View attachment 7

Disclaimer: I am not an academic nor am I very knowledgeable in all things Quran despite the fact that I have been guided by our Lord since 2010. I am learning still.



I have been having a hard time to come to a conclusion about Iblis and who he really is. Let's have a look at the verses:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ أَبَىٰ وَٱسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ ٱلْكَـٰفِرِينَ
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he refused, and had waxed proud, and was of the false claimers of guidance.
(2:34)

And here is another which God commands the Angels:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ قَالَ ءَأَسْجُدُ لِمَنْ خَلَقْتَ طِينًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he said: “Shall I submit to one Thou hast created of clay?”
(17:61)

The two verses above clearly states that God said to the angels, and what was the key words were 'Submit to Adam'.

Staying within this context, this entity called Iblīs refused to do so. We also know that he is of the Jinn:


وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ ٱسْجُدُوا۟ لِـَٔادَمَ فَسَجَدُوٓا۟ إِلَّآ إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِۦٓ أَفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُۥ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُۥٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ مِن دُونِى وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّۢ بِئْسَ لِلظَّـٰلِمِينَ بَدَلًا
And when We said to the angels: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Iblīs; he was of the domini and was perfidious towards the command of his Lord; take you him and his progeny as allies instead of Me? And they are an enemy to you; evil an exchange for the wrongdoers!
(18:50)


I know there are a lot more verses that supports the fact that Iblis is of the Jinn, but I feel that this could be a enlightening discussion to start off since it has been bugging me for so long.

Let's have an intelligent and civil discussion!
Click to expand...
Peace be upon you, I am also 1 who considers himself as still learning and from what I took from these verse is that Angels are the forces of Allah, Angel Jibraeel the Almighty calls him the the Spirit of Allah/spirit of guidance, Mikaeel as a Binding force and iblees created from a smokeless fire which is Despair, Jinn, Jannah and Jahannum all have the same root letters and pertain to things that are hidden, the forces of Allah are hidden and so are Jinn, Jannah and Jahannum....And when We said to the Forces: “Submit to Adam,” then they submitted. Not so Despair; he said: “Shall I submit to one Thou hast created of clay?”

I have read that those who reject the revelations the Almighty causes a hidden flame to ascend to the heart which causes one to despair and dwell deeper into rejection and falsehood.

Our Creator knows best...
Peace
 
Quote: “I know there are a lot more verses that supports the fact that Iblis is of the Jinn” end of quote.

What verses? Fact to the matter there are a lot of verses that support “iblees” being “melaikeh”…not the other way around.

Next quote: “Angel Jibraeel the Almighty calls him the the Spirit of Allah/spirit of guidance…” end of quote.

Again where is statement about “jibraeel” and “ruh” being the same?
 
nedimtabakovic1977@icloud said:
Quote: “I know there are a lot more verses that supports the fact that Iblis is of the Jinn” end of quote.

What verses? Fact to the matter there are a lot of verses that support “iblees” being “melaikeh”…not the other way around.

Next quote: “Angel Jibraeel the Almighty calls him the the Spirit of Allah/spirit of guidance…” end of quote.

Again where is statement about “jibraeel” and “ruh” being the same?
Click to expand...
Sorry I may have stated it wrong [26:193] The Trustworthy Spirit came down with it. [16:102] Say, “The Holy Spirit brought it down from your Lord, in truth, to stabilize those who believe, and as guidance and good news for the Submitters.”

This Spirit is the Angel Jibraeel/Gabriel
[2:97] Say, “Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel—it was he who, by God’s will, brought it down upon your heart, confirming what preceded it, and providing guidance and good news for the believers.”
[16:2] He sends down the angels with the spirit from His command, upon whom He wills of His servants, saying, “Warn that there is no god but Me, so fear Me.”

Ruhullah, Ruh UL Amin, Ruh UL Quds
There are many more were Gabriel as the spirit who brings guidance from our Lord to instill in our hearts
 
Peace
Iblees or shaytan rageem is most probably Id (Das Es) which or who works subtly on and through ego and self esteem which can’t be known or controlled by our souls. It has been an unknown stranger (jinn) for our minds. In turn it is an angel (ayah) of our God and a jinn for us.
I also think Mikal (Michael?) in Qur’an is Resool himself and Cibril (Gabriel?) is the scripture itself.
Actually we need to understand soul (nefs), spirit (ruh), logos (word, kalime) and holy Geist (ruh kuds) which is very complicated and this confusion led to Christian trinity. I refrain from mentioning any particular idea concerning these issues.
Vassalam.
 
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