Does the Qur'an support universalism, or, alternatively, at least the idea of Ahl al Kitab entering Jannah ? Who will get to enter the Paradise ?

Hester

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In your understanding, does the Qur'an support universalism, the belief that all humankind will evantually be saved, or is it more plausible to assume that only Muslims will be saved ?​

  1. In favor of universalism
  • A verse like this suggests that the Ahl al-kitab will also receive their reward. However, it is not explicitly stated what is meant by that. Note that the term used in this verse is not Ahl al-kitab, but the groups who shall receive the reward are named.
  • This verse therefore excludes atheists, agnostics, mushrikeen, munafiqun, and pretty much rules out other religious groups which were not mentioned, even if we assumed that the verse is indeed talking about paradise, and not some sort of compensation as is seen in verse as is mentioned in for instance Az-Zalzalah 7-8. The verse in question is 2:62 and it reads as follows:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّـهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
(Those who heed warning,1 and those who hold to Judaism,2 and the Christians,3 and the Sabaeans4 — whoso believes in God and the Last Day and works righteousness — they have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will be upon them, nor will they grieve.)
  • Furthermore, God the Almighty is called Ghafoor Ar-Raheem.
إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًۭا رَّحِيمًۭا
Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful
  • It seems reasonable to think that God, whose inherent nature and essence is mercy and forgiveness, will not subject people to eternal suffering simply because they do not believe in Him. Possible objection is that only those whom God chooses enter the framework of God's mercy according to Al-Baqarah, 105, whose part reads "But Allah selects for His mercy whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.". This argument however is philosophical in nature, thus not quranic. However, I do not think that the argument is unquranic either, because the Quran does in fact tell us to be from the people who think, by telling us to "reason"(ie. to use it) many times.
2. In favor of traditional understanding
  • Consider the verse six of Surah Bayyinah. It calls those among the People of the Book and the Idolaters the worst of the creatures. Furthermore, it provides us two important information: a) they will be in the fire of jahannam, and b) they will remain there forever. This verse is strong evidence in favor of the opinion that unbelievers will go to hell and that universalism is wrong, because for universalism to be true, it requires that hell or the place of punishment to eventually end. Here it is said to be eternal, which means that some people will not be saved in the end. Many such Quranic verses end with "halidine fiha" emphasizing the importance of "them abiding therein forever", which tells us about the eternal nature of the Jahannam.
  • Bear in mind that the word coined here is Ahl al Kitab. These groups are in Muslim academic circles often called the people of the Book, as they were given scriptures prior to the Holy Quran. Bear this in mind because it seems that translator like Sam Gerrans translates the word as "Doctors of law", probably assuming that the people of the book does not refer to these groups as traditionally understood, but rather to the people who are -knowledgable- of the Quran or the previous scriptures. This is my assumption, but I do not know what his explaination for this translation is. Please do correct me on this if i misunderstood him. This is of huge importance because the verse mentions that it is those "people of the books" who will abide there forever, therefore, who they are in the first place is a very important question. The verse reads as follows:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ مِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيهَآ ۚ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمْ شَرُّ ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ
Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings.
  • Another thing to consider is the chapter Al-Mu'minun. It seems to list good charachterists of certain groups of people in a first few verses, to arrive at 10th and 11th verse proclaiming:
    أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْوَٰرِثُونَ
    10 It is they who are the heirs,
    ٱلَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ ٱلْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيهَا خَـٰلِدُونَ
    11 Those who inherit Paradise;1 therein will they abide eternally.
  • Before that, the verse mentions many such good charachterists, but I would like to note two very important and relevant verses from the beginning of this chapter. The first obviously being "Successful are the Believers". If we were to say that this "believers" group includes believers from the people of the book as well, we would need to then consider the following verse "those who in their duty are humble". Traditional Muslims would interpret the word used as a physical ritual of prayer, but Sam's and Quranic understanding overall would be that this is the duty, or a connection, a special bond between them and the God. Either way, it seems that, to be saved, one needs to also be in this "duty" humble. Secondly, accepting the prophetood of Muhammad, that which has been revealed to him, and existence of angels and Gods Writs seems to be required for one to be considered a "believer" according to 2:285. Even if we were to say that the Christians and Jews do believe in angels and Writs, it is a fact that they do NOT believe in Muhammad or some other God's messengers (for instance by attributing divinity to Jesus, this means that they do not consider him nor a messenger or a prophet)
  • More evidence from the Quran is that the prophethood of Muhammad has to be accepted for the one to be saved. So, not just to be considered to be a believer, but also, to be accepted in general. Such verses include the following:
وَمَن لَّمْ يُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِۦ فَإِنَّآ أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَـٰفِرِينَ سَعِيرًۭا١٣
And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then We surely have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire (48:13)
note: Sam translates سَعِيرًا as inferno too.
ءَامَنَ ٱلرَّسُولُ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِۦ وَٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّـهِ وَمَلَـٰٓئِكَتِهِۦ وَكُتُبِهِۦ وَرُسُلِهِۦ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِۦ وَقَالُوا۟ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ ٱلْمَصِيرُ
The Messenger believes in what is sent down to him from his Lord, as do the believers; each believes in God and His angels, and His Writs and His messengers: “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say: “We hear and we obey; Thy forgiveness our Lord[...]. And to Thee is the journey’s end.”(2:285)
What do you, brothers and sisters, think, in what light shall we understand all these verses? Who truly gets to enter the Paradise?
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Peace!
I used Sam Gerrans' translation for many of the verses, as I personally like it too.

Sure, I will revise the thread and use it for the rest by tommorow as I'm currently tired and headed to sleep now.

Could I get a feedback on why you consider the post to not be of high quality? And, would you consider yourself to be an universalist? I am a bit curios as I did watch some of your YT content.
 
Your post is low-quality and needs to be revised

IF you do not cite Qur'anic verses to support your position
IF you use Traditional translations (Hilali-Khan, Saheeh International etc.) which are inaccurate or pushing a Sunni agenda
IF you just came up with the idea 10 minutes ago and decided to post it
 
Your post is low-quality and needs to be revised

IF you do not cite Qur'anic verses to support your position
IF you use Traditional translations (Hilali-Khan, Saheeh International etc.) which are inaccurate or pushing a Sunni agenda
IF you just came up with the idea 10 minutes ago and decided to post it
I did cite the verses and I will revise the translation of them.
This idea is not something I randomly came up with, it has been bothering me for a long time as it seems to be of huge importance.
What is your view on the topic? Or is this an Ai generated response that Im answering to?
 
Haha, no I am real. I was just copy pasting the low quality post criteria. You just need to revise some of the translations used and I think the last part of your post is grayed out which makes it difficult to read.

Peace!
 

In your understanding, does the Qur'an support universalism, the belief that all humankind will evantually be saved, or is it more plausible to assume that only Muslims will be saved ?​

  1. In favor of universalism
  • A verse like this suggests that the Ahl al-kitab will also receive their reward. However, it is not explicitly stated what is meant by that. Note that the term used in this verse is not Ahl al-kitab, but the groups who shall receive the reward are named.
  • This verse therefore excludes atheists, agnostics, mushrikeen, munafiqun, and pretty much rules out other religious groups which were not mentioned, even if we assumed that the verse is indeed talking about paradise, and not some sort of compensation as is seen in verse as is mentioned in for instance Az-Zalzalah 7-8. The verse in question is 2:62 and it reads as follows:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّـهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
(Those who heed warning,1 and those who hold to Judaism,2 and the Christians,3 and the Sabaeans4 — whoso believes in God and the Last Day and works righteousness — they have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will be upon them, nor will they grieve.)
  • Furthermore, God the Almighty is called Ghafoor Ar-Raheem.
إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًۭا رَّحِيمًۭا
Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful
  • It seems reasonable to think that God, whose inherent nature and essence is mercy and forgiveness, will not subject people to eternal suffering simply because they do not believe in Him. Possible objection is that only those whom God chooses enter the framework of God's mercy according to Al-Baqarah, 105, whose part reads "But Allah selects for His mercy whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.". This argument however is philosophical in nature, thus not quranic. However, I do not think that the argument is unquranic either, because the Quran does in fact tell us to be from the people who think, by telling us to "reason"(ie. to use it) many times.
2. In favor of traditional understanding
  • Consider the verse six of Surah Bayyinah. It calls those among the People of the Book and the Idolaters the worst of the creatures. Furthermore, it provides us two important information: a) they will be in the fire of jahannam, and b) they will remain there forever. This verse is strong evidence in favor of the opinion that unbelievers will go to hell and that universalism is wrong, because for universalism to be true, it requires that hell or the place of punishment to eventually end. Here it is said to be eternal, which means that some people will not be saved in the end. Many such Quranic verses end with "halidine fiha" emphasizing the importance of "them abiding therein forever", which tells us about the eternal nature of the Jahannam.
  • Bear in mind that the word coined here is Ahl al Kitab. These groups are in Muslim academic circles often called the people of the Book, as they were given scriptures prior to the Holy Quran. Bear this in mind because it seems that translator like Sam Gerrans translates the word as "Doctors of law", probably assuming that the people of the book does not refer to these groups as traditionally understood, but rather to the people who are -knowledgable- of the Quran or the previous scriptures. This is my assumption, but I do not know what his explaination for this translation is. Please do correct me on this if i misunderstood him. This is of huge importance because the verse mentions that it is those "people of the books" who will abide there forever, therefore, who they are in the first place is a very important question. The verse reads as follows:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ مِنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيهَآ ۚ أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمْ شَرُّ ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ
Indeed, those who disbelieve from the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the Fire of Hell, to stay there forever. They are the worst of ˹all˺ beings.
  • Another thing to consider is the chapter Al-Mu'minun. It seems to list good charachterists of certain groups of people in a first few verses, to arrive at 10th and 11th verse proclaiming:
    أُو۟لَـٰٓئِكَ هُمُ ٱلْوَٰرِثُونَ
    10 It is they who are the heirs,
    ٱلَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ ٱلْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيهَا خَـٰلِدُونَ
    11 Those who inherit Paradise;1 therein will they abide eternally.
  • Before that, the verse mentions many such good charachterists, but I would like to note two very important and relevant verses from the beginning of this chapter. The first obviously being "Successful are the Believers". If we were to say that this "believers" group includes believers from the people of the book as well, we would need to then consider the following verse "those who in their duty are humble". Traditional Muslims would interpret the word used as a physical ritual of prayer, but Sam's and Quranic understanding overall would be that this is the duty, or a connection, a special bond between them and the God. Either way, it seems that, to be saved, one needs to also be in this "duty" humble. Secondly, accepting the prophetood of Muhammad, that which has been revealed to him, and existence of angels and Gods Writs seems to be required for one to be considered a "believer" according to 2:285. Even if we were to say that the Christians and Jews do believe in angels and Writs, it is a fact that they do NOT believe in Muhammad or some other God's messengers (for instance by attributing divinity to Jesus, this means that they do not consider him nor a messenger or a prophet)
  • More evidence from the Quran is that the prophethood of Muhammad has to be accepted for the one to be saved. So, not just to be considered to be a believer, but also, to be accepted in general. Such verses include the following:
وَمَن لَّمْ يُؤْمِنۢ بِٱللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِۦ فَإِنَّآ أَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَـٰفِرِينَ سَعِيرًۭا١٣

And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, then We surely have prepared for the disbelievers a blazing Fire (48:13)
note: Sam translates سَعِيرًا as inferno too.
ءَامَنَ ٱلرَّسُولُ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِۦ وَٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّـهِ وَمَلَـٰٓئِكَتِهِۦ وَكُتُبِهِۦ وَرُسُلِهِۦ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِۦ وَقَالُوا۟ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ ٱلْمَصِيرُ
The Messenger believes in what is sent down to him from his Lord, as do the believers; each believes in God and His angels, and His Writs and His messengers: “We make no distinction between any of His messengers.” And they say: “We hear and we obey; Thy forgiveness our Lord[...]. And to Thee is the journey’s end.”(2:285)
What do you, brothers and sisters, think, in what light shall we understand all these verses? Who truly gets to enter the Paradise?

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I think this lends to that:
إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَٱلَّذِينَ هَادُوا۟ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ وَٱلصَّـٰبِـِٔينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِٱللَّـهِ وَٱلْيَوْمِ ٱلْـَٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَـٰلِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
(Those who heed warning, and those who hold to Judaism, and the Christians, and the Sabaeans — whoso believes in God and the Last Day and works righteousness — they have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will be upon them, nor will they grieve.)
(2:62)
 
1- Allllllllll dwelling in hell is eternal, there are no exceptions
2- There is no redemption after death. Adam got sent out of heaven for eating from a tree he was told not to. You think transgressors who rejected sign after sign, killed prophets, changed his scripture, etc. will enter his heaven? And there is no intermediary between the two dwellings (but grades in both). And there is no other chance after life, we've got plenty everyday.
3- There is no group you can belong to that will save you from direct total accountability in front of Allah at the day of judgement, including Islam. That's the whole point of the sons of Israel ! Even the most favored group can go astray ! And veeeery far ! "Or were you witnesses when death came to Jacob, and he said to his sons, “What will you worship after Me?” They said, “We will worship your God, and the God of your fathers, Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac; One God; and to Him we are "mouslimoun".”
That's about the question itself, then a couple of more points on following assumptions
4- "And amongst people are ones who say they believe in god and the final day but they are not believers". As for the believers, "most of them believe not in God save as associators.". And that concerns all people, whatever label they give themselves. A christian may say the lord is my shepherd and truly submit only to him, fear but him, and associate nothing with him. He is then submitted to Allah on the way of Ibrahim, whether he calls himself "muslim" or not. The conclusion of this question being: The judgement is up to Allah, and no,
5- You don't have to accept "Muhammed" as the messenger to be a muslim, that's not part of millat Ibrahim.
 
The millat of Ibrahim and that of Muhammad are the same… and neither are meant as veneration of the messenger… but instead the message. Yeah? Would you agree?
 
The millat of Ibrahim and that of Muhammad are the same… and neither are meant as veneration of the messenger… but instead the message. Yeah? Would you agree?
136. Say, “We believe in Allah; and in what was revealed to us; and in what was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus; and in what was given to the prophets—from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit (are mouslimoun).”
84. Say, “We believe in Allah, and in what was revealed to us; and in what was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses, and Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit (are mouslimoun).”
Islam is the creed of Ibrahim, prophets after him called to his, not to Mohammed's creed.
 
Not to his… but to God’s… he too was only uttering truth and that is divine … that is from God.
 
That is a common interpretation. Quran itself (the word) comes from Iqra, which can be referring to the word of God… and his guidance (revelation) to mankind… which was from the beginning… I’ll give you that this is why 2:62 says that even Sabaeans have no need to fear… provided they adhere to what we might ascribe as Duty…. They predate Judaism and Ibrahim. It makes no sense to think that adhering to their millat, creed or guidance would make one in need of fear… and by a broader application of Quran encompassing Gods guidance irrespective of Book… we can see 2:62 making sense of that broader definition of the word Book… or more specific and accurately… “Revelation of God”.
 
"Qur'aan" can also come from Qarana ≈ bind.
Allah creates with words, and that it from the beginning, yes, but the words of God in the quran were not from the beginning. There was no story of Joseph or Noah from the beginning. Adam did not need the quran in the garden, he only had one order: do not eat from this tree. After the sons of Israel were saved from Fir3aoun (pharaoh) they were given scripture and Furk'aan, which weren't the quran.
The Quran definitely came later to connect all truth in the horizons and ourselves as well as truth in previous scriptures, and knowledge from the unseen from the past, present and future.

I don't know who the sabeans are, but I know the other categories in the verse are not what most people think they are. I know for instance that "allatheena haadou" is not what you think, as you seem to still say that judaism predated Islam, and that is false. Islam IS the religion of Abraham and all the sons of Jacob. Mohammed did not come with a new religion, he called for the original one. Quran brings alleviations to previous commands and mercy for mankind, so there are no new restricting laws, dress codes, rituals or any of that.

As for fear, you're confusing fearing God, which we are all ment to (only those who do succeed), and worrying about other people's fate, which this verse is about. The whole point being as I said: It's not up to us to judge these people. This book is not saying everyone's going to heaven. It's saying that you may fall under labels other than Islam and still be under Allah's mercy in the afterlife. It does not say either that you should still remain on other creeds than Islam once the truth has presented to you. But even if you do, no one can force you or judge you.
 
Are you suggesting a distinction regarding Ibrahim that might conflict with Quran 2:285? Also, have you noticed that the term "Writ" (scripture) is used in the plural form in the Quran? How do you reconcile these points with the message in Quran 2:62? Additionally, considering that Adam, Enoch, and Nuh were also prophets, how does this align with the ideas I’ve shared?

Please note, I'm not asserting these as facts and therefore end of discussion... I'm exploring theories and asking questions in an effort to uncover deeper truths and to clarify any potential misunderstandings… I hope for more discussion.

Peace
 
Isn’t it more accurate to associate the root word “Iqra”—meaning “Read” or “Recite”—with the Quran? Considering the command Jibreel first gave to Muhammad, it seems that “Iqra” is the proper root to understand and connect with the essence of the Quran… however, metaphorically, metaphysically… this can connote to binding!

Metaphorically and metaphysically, “Iqra” can extend beyond the literal act of reading or reciting to encompass the deeper, binding relationship between the Quran and the believer. This connection involves internalizing, committing to, and integrating the divine guidance into one’s life, which can be seen as a form of spiritual binding.
 
Are you suggesting a distinction regarding Ibrahim that might conflict with Quran 2:285? Also, have you noticed that the term "Writ" (scripture) is used in the plural form in the Quran? How do you reconcile these points with the message in Quran 2:62? Additionally, considering that Adam, Enoch, and Nuh were also prophets, how does this align with the ideas I’ve shared?

Please note, I'm not asserting these as facts and therefore end of discussion... I'm exploring theories and asking questions in an effort to uncover deeper truths and to clarify any potential misunderstandings… I hope for more discussion.

Peace
Ibrahim is the role-model for humanity, and it is his creed that we are called to follow, as per the quran. I see no conflict with the order "not to seperate between any of His messengers".
The main advantage of the word writ over the word scripture as a translation for the word kitaab is that writ refers to both "writing" in the absolute or gerund meaning, as well as the physical book. In the plural form of the world kitaab, kutub, it means the scriptures.
I don't see a problem, if you do please help me understand what you mean.
And I don't know much who Enoch is (I suspect it's Ozair/Metatron). I don't think Adam is considered a prophet.
So I'm not sure I understand the reasoning to be able to answer...

And about the root of the word Quran, it can be both to read and to bind, qara'a and qarana. and I see often in the book that when there is ambiguity, both meaning are involved. So I agree with your analysis.
 
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