a

[Eliyahu אֵלִיָּהוּ]

a

 

[shazaam]

Peace Brother.
What is your overall opinion of his changing the conjugation if this particular instance? You stated that you find it reasonable but do you agree? I am not an Arabic speaker so am relying on others for insight.
If there are other instances I remember Sam indicating that he addresses those in his notes and addendum.

 

[shazaam]

Thank you. Your answer is helpful.
Peace.

 

[positivethinker1]

While personally i consider Sam Gerrans Translation to be the best english translation, Sam here intentionally goes against the grammar of the verb and he changes it from "do not let them approach" to "do not approach"

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِنَّمَا ٱلْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا يَقْرَبُوا۟ ٱلْمَسْجِدَ ٱلْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـٰذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ ٱللَّـهُ مِن فَضْلِهِۦٓ إِن شَآءَ إِنَّ ٱللَّـهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ
O you who heed warning: those who ascribe a partnership are unclean; so approach not the inviolable place of worship after this their year. And if you fear poverty, then will God enrich you out of His bounty, if He wills; God is knowing and wise.
(9:28)

Yes to my knowledge this is the only place he does that. Peace

 

[positivethinker1]

39:3 is the only place 3rd person plural is used (form II) which is quite interesting in that the idol worshipers are using the word to associate others with God.

أَلَا لِلَّـهِ ٱلدِّينُ ٱلْخَالِصُ وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مِن دُونِهِۦٓ أَوْلِيَآءَ مَا نَعْبُدُهُمْ إِلَّا لِيُقَرِّبُونَآ إِلَى ٱللَّـهِ زُلْفَىٰٓ إِنَّ ٱللَّـهَ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ فِى مَا هُمْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ إِنَّ ٱللَّـهَ لَا يَهْدِى مَنْ هُوَ كَـٰذِبٌ كَفَّارٌ
Does not the sincere doctrine belong to God? And those who take allies besides Him: — “We only serve them that they might bring us near to God in proximity!” — God will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ; God guides not him who is a liar and an ingrate.
(39:3)

God knows best. Peace.

 

[positivethinker1]

What do you mean?
Can you say it as a question?

Whenever the 2nd person is used, it usually involves God either giving direction to the believers to not go near something or a believer giving direction to someone else to not approach him (12:60).

This is the only instance when a 3rd person is used and the subject is idol worshipers associating others with God by going near them.

Another point that in my opinion goes in favor of the way Sam has translated 9:28.

Peace

 

[positivethinker1]

I have found new things.

Sam Gerrans' argument is about the believers losing a battle and this reason they couldnt reached the inviolable place of worship anymore it was full of non believers

My advice is that we read the chapter called "Repentance" but before that we read the chapter "Spoils Of War" because Repentance doesnt have "in the name of god...." at the start, so it could be a continuation of "Spoils Of War"


وَمَا لَهُمْ أَلَّا يُعَذِّبَهُمُ ٱللَّـهُ وَهُمْ يَصُدُّونَ عَنِ ٱلْمَسْجِدِ ٱلْحَرَامِ وَمَا كَانُوٓا۟ أَوْلِيَآءَهُۥٓ إِنْ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُۥٓ إِلَّا ٱلْمُتَّقُونَ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
But how can they not be punished by God when they turn away from the inviolable place of worship, and are not its allies? Its allies are only those of prudent fear; but most of them know not.
(8:34)
وَمَا كَانَ صَلَاتُهُمْ عِندَ ٱلْبَيْتِ إِلَّا مُكَآءً وَتَصْدِيَةً فَذُوقُوا۟ ٱلْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ
And their duty at the house is only whistling and clapping — so taste the punishment for what you denied!
(8:35)
وَلَا تَكُونُوا۟ كَٱلَّذِينَ خَرَجُوا۟ مِن دِيَـٰرِهِم بَطَرًا وَرِئَآءَ ٱلنَّاسِ وَيَصُدُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّـهِ وَٱللَّـهُ بِمَا يَعْمَلُونَ مُحِيطٌ
And be not like those who come forth from their homes boastfully, and to be seen of men, and turn away from the path of God; and God encompasses what they do.
(8:47)


While these 3 verses shows that the believers were weak. This changed in other verses because God helped the believers with Angels in their last battle
إِذْ تَسْتَغِيثُونَ رَبَّكُمْ فَٱسْتَجَابَ لَكُمْ أَنِّى مُمِدُّكُم بِأَلْفٍ مِّنَ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةِ مُرْدِفِينَ
When you sought succour of your Lord, and He responded to you: “I will assist you with a thousand angels in ranks.”
(8:9)



we see the non-believers running away after they lost
وَلَا يَحْسَبَنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ سَبَقُوٓا۟ إِنَّهُمْ لَا يُعْجِزُونَ
And let not those who ignore warning think they have got away; they cannot escape.
(8:59)


We see that the believers took captives of the non-believers

مَا كَانَ لِنَبِىٍّ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُۥٓ أَسْرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ يُثْخِنَ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ تُرِيدُونَ عَرَضَ ٱلدُّنْيَا وَٱللَّـهُ يُرِيدُ ٱلْـَٔاخِرَةَ وَٱللَّـهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ
It is not for a prophet to have captives until he has battled strenuously in the land. You desire the goods of the World, and God desires the Hereafter; and God is exalted in might and wise.
(8:67)
يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ قُل لِّمَن فِىٓ أَيْدِيكُم مِّنَ ٱلْأَسْرَىٰٓ إِن يَعْلَمِ ٱللَّـهُ فِى قُلُوبِكُمْ خَيْرًا يُؤْتِكُمْ خَيْرًا مِّمَّآ أُخِذَ مِنكُمْ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ وَٱللَّـهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
O Prophet: say thou to those in your hands of the captives: “If God knows any good in your hearts, He will give you better than what has been taken from you, and will forgive you”; and God is forgiving and merciful.
(8:70)

and they also won spoils of war

فَكُلُوا۟ مِمَّا غَنِمْتُمْ حَلَـٰلًا طَيِّبًا وَٱتَّقُوا۟ ٱللَّـهَ إِنَّ ٱللَّـهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
So eat of what you took in spoils as lawful and good, and be in prudent fear of God; God is forgiving and merciful.
(8:69)

My conclusion in "The spoils of war" chapter is that things has changed. The believers were weak but now they became strong.

So it doesnt make sense the place of worship will still not be in their hand. Its now the believers who are controlling it.

My current idea from "the spoils of war" is that Sam gerrans is wrong.
ill check the next chapter this week god willing and see if my mind changes.

You could be right too. At this point, this is not a core doctrinal point for me to pay too much attention to. Peace